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Nick's Place: Papers: Purchase College: LGS Studies: Plato's Symposium


Nicholas Barnard

Intro. to Lesbian and Gay Studies

Sarah Chinn

Plato's Symposium

Reading Response

My first reaction to Plato's Symposium before I had even picked up the book was, “Yeah, more Greek to try to give a point to when there really isn't one.” After picking the book up and reading it I was first surprised at the readability of it, something I wasn't accustomed to in my previous encounters with Greek literature. Second, I was surprised that it wasn't about a war, or some hero getting lost in mythical worlds worthy of a science fiction writer's efforts.

In looking back on the whole of Plato's work I am confused why he develops two characters relatively significantly only for the purpose of providing a frame to the major work. It further confused me that he drops this frame completely after the opening of the work. While the mid-narrative discarding of a frame was practiced much later by Shakespeare in a few instances, it eludes me why Plato drops this frame when, at least in this work, I consider him a fairly systematic and thorough writer, exploring and elaborating on his chosen subject with great skill. Perhaps I am tainted by the current Hollywood methodology of a thorough utilization of the frame to be a portion of the story telling methodology. Perhaps Plato's only purpose of the frame is as the Introduction suggests, to distance this work from Plato, his attempt at raising the authenticity of this piece.

Another unexplored idea is that the frame is for the purpose of focusing the audience and grabbing their attention. Today listening to a prepared story is an event, whether the story takes the form of a motion picture, a musical, a story telling event, and to a lesser extent a television show. These events have a period built in before them that the audience uses to prepare themselves to receive the story that will be presented to them. Given Symposium's nature it might have been presented on the street side, or within a noisy gathering. The frame might have been utilized as a signal to the people around the presenter to shift their attention toward the presentation. In a more formalized presentation method the frame may have served a similar purpose of signaling the start of the show, akin to the curtain rising.

The frame comprises a small percentage of Symposium. I found the large remainder of the piece interesting, but not extremely worthy of a discussion of the purpose of the presentation.

The Speech of Aristophanes will remain in my memory for years to come as a result of the vivid visual images presented. The whimsical image presented by a protohuman made of two humans, is extremely relevant to today's society. People often talk of finding their other half, or their soul mate. Aristophanes's speech provides a clear reason for the motivation of this feeling. It also happens to remind me of the movie Sleepless in Seattle, if only for the reason of the common theme of finding the other half that a person belongs to. I would think that this speech is most memorable to me because of the specific search of the other half.

Personal Response

My peers in the small private high school all participated in the modified dating ritual, I refrained. This is not to say I didn't have girls who wanted to be my girlfriend, and we dated with no intention on my part of continuing the relationship on the level of boyfriend/girlfriend. I wanted my other half -- I just didn't know how to find him. Maybe this is why I find the Symposium appealing in that it describes an institutionalized from of homosexuality. If I had lived in this world I never would have felt the closeted and lonely feeling that I did as a result of my lack of participation in dating rituals. I believe this is what truly appeals to me in Athenian society.

Class Response

I must admit I was initially shocked at the frankness of the languages and the discussion. The discussion leaves the question of whether or not the Greeks were gay hanging in my mind. I would have to come to the conclusion that the Greeks were no more gay than the American Population today. While straight males utilized and “taught” young males, this very well might be a result of the lack of effective birth control, or strong women who may have refused intercourse, coupled with the male sex drive. In addition the institutionalization of a behavior makes citizen's feel that they need to participate in this system.

The interesting question is if there were males who participating in this system as an erastes but did not derive any pleasure from it and only participated because of the social requirement that they must. I would consider this unlikely because of the fact that Greeks were only concerned if they were penetrated, not whom they were penetrating. I think that is the definition of Greek homosexuality, to be penetrated outside the eramanos stage. This is where confusing arises from the American interpretation of this society.